40 comments

  • simonw 51 minutes ago
    These are not very smart spies:

    > A chatbot account tied to Alfozan’s spouse, which shared identifiers with his own account, submitted prompts between Sept. 24 and Sept. 30 about building, installing, obscuring, and remotely accessing a recording device, prosecutors said. Queries included how to “build a continuous audio recorder” and “encrypt the SD card,” prosecutors claimed. On Sept. 27 and 28, the account asked about the specific device that was later found, including its unique MAC address.

    • adamm255 47 minutes ago
      Learning that every thought you’ve put into an LLM, is recorded and readily available for evidence is going to be interesting for a lot of people.
      • binlog 27 minutes ago
        Similar to how people realized their Google searches were accessible to law enforcement.

        “I did not kill my wife!”

        “Cool so why did you search for how to hide a dead body the same day she went missing?”

      • serial_dev 1 minute ago
        Even my non tech elderly parents know that. The fact that they used LLMs to figure out how to best bug the executives really shows how poor their judgement is.
      • darepublic 9 minutes ago
        I figured any hire at openai would know that at least
      • KellyCriterion 33 minutes ago
        It starts far before that:

        Ive seen people going through Plaud.AI conversation to find "on day X person Y said Z to person W", just to get some amunition against them.

      • 10xDev 32 minutes ago
        I think people have some awareness, but like search history they believe deleting will resolve that (it won't).
      • EGreg 33 minutes ago
        Ever since social media, I have always gamed out what would happen if this was ever saved on the backend and used against me in the future.

        It’s like thinking about edge cases in programming…

        Most people are totally not like that. And it does force you into some difficult choices.

        • jacquesm 27 minutes ago
          > And it does force you into some difficult choices.

          I gots to know...

        • teiferer 26 minutes ago
          Just to be clear, the difficult choice is not whether to use OpenAi/Anthropic/Grok/... versus a local LLM.

          The choice is whether to hang out with people with whom you can't be sure they don't have a Plaud/Pocket/.. in their literal pocket which is continuously listening.

          Unfortunately the set of such people will eventually be shrinking more and more until eventually only a few tinfoil folks are left. Dystopian? Just think back w.r.t. continuous tracking by Google/Facebook/.. Unthinkable 30 years ago, total standard today. Try to count the fraction of your emails that don't actually reside on a MSFT or Google server because the other end has an account there. That fight is over. You can just as well join them.

      • teiferer 32 minutes ago
        Prepare to have that dug up 20 years in the future during some court proceedings.

        Or at the border where it is already routine to ask for social media accounts (especially foreign nationals) you might someday five the border agent your login.

    • areoform 27 minutes ago
      How far have we fallen? Spies used to put effort into these sorts of things.

      When the Soviets wanted to spy on the American embassy, they energized the steel rebars to act as antennas. The structure was so wired that the entire building was the bug. https://www.airandspaceforces.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Docume...

      Toilet paper, ESP-32 and Claude "make me a bug please"? Excuse me? How far have we fallen from grace?

      • JumpCrisscross 21 minutes ago
        > Spies used to put effort into these sorts of things

        Assuming this is espionage—for which I have seen zero evidence—isn’t Saudi Arabia notorious for having a fuckup of an intelligence operation? The literal hatchet job that was the Khashoggi murder comes to mind.

        • aprilthird2021 4 minutes ago
          Umm, excuse me, according to the President of the United States, he wasn't a very good guy and a lot of people really didn't like him, so you should really just let that whole incident go
      • pennomi 25 minutes ago
        Surely this is because good spies don’t make the news.
        • xupybd 7 minutes ago
          Unless everyone's pagers start exploding
      • fortran77 6 minutes ago
        Not only that, they had Leon Theremin design some of their bugs! That's classy.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)

      • epolanski 5 minutes ago
        Counter spying has gotten sloppy and mostly digital/remote.

        That lowers the entry bar for basic spying.

      • tdeck 14 minutes ago
        LLMs have democratized espionage!
      • TeMPOraL 16 minutes ago
        That's what you get when you make a dumb prompt and accept the first result LLM gives you. You have to push it to think out of the box, get into the realm of insane but plausible projects :).

        And not do this from your spouse's account.

    • jonplackett 9 minutes ago
      It’s the criminals that you don’t catch that you have to worry about.

      The fact that even this incompetent dude most likely still made off with some secrets means I’m sure some better trained ones got/are continuing to get a few more.

    • janalsncm 41 minutes ago
      You probably don’t hear about the smart ones.
      • andai 35 minutes ago
        I was thinking about this, how all the secret societies and crazy conspiracies we know about are just the ones that failed to keep the lid on.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

        • stvltvs 24 minutes ago
          What portion of grand conspiracies do we think go undetected forever? Do we have any reasons for our intuitions?
    • Topfi 7 minutes ago
      Somehow is an engineer at OpenAI and before that at Meta.

      Does not understand how models or data retention works.

      Needs LLMs to encrypt a flash card.

      Are their hiring standards that lax?

    • hoppp 10 minutes ago
      The listening device was concealed with toilet paper behind a tv. Duh, Not smart at all.
      • keybrd-intrrpt 5 minutes ago
        Right?!

        It could have just been a regular black usb stick an I bet nobody would have questioned it.

        Instead "why is there something in toilet paper behind the TV?"

    • andai 36 minutes ago
      Hey ChatGPT, how do I do opsec? (Asking for a friend)
    • afavour 20 minutes ago
      > the truth is, these are not very bright guys and things got out of hand
    • solyin 36 minutes ago
      Especially since you an just buy one, like Plaud and tape it to the underside of the desk, surreptitiously, instead of suspiciously accessing the back of the TV.
    • icedchai 6 minutes ago
      Nope. He probably should've googled it (from a coffee shop, over a VPN.) There is commercial grade spy equipment that can be bought relatively cheaply and looks like every day items.
    • United857 33 minutes ago
      Also from the article:

      > An unattended bag found in the company’s offices contained Alfozan’s wallet and identification, as well as a recording device

      It’s almost like he wanted to be caught…

    • sippingabonedry 12 minutes ago
      The tech industry has a lot of very capable people with very narrow domain knowledge.

      Somehow they think this gives them superpowers when it's built atop a tower of borderline retardation.

      Remember the Apple guy a minute ago that arrogantly thought he could bypass their security?

    • ReptileMan 42 minutes ago
      I am not sure whether it bodes well for humanity that the advice "If you want to break the law use local abliterated model or at least a Chinese one" actually has to be written down.
      • kalkin 33 minutes ago
        Recall that multiple of the Chinese LLM providers got caught sending at least some of their queries to Claude. That would be a pretty funny way to get caught in turn doing something by the US government.
      • nilamo 30 minutes ago
        Or, at the very, very least, use incognito mode on a computer you don't otherwise touch, such as at a library.
      • contingencies 32 minutes ago
        The future is already here it's just not evenly distributed.
    • TZubiri 45 minutes ago
      "OpenAI personnel found the device Sept. 30. It was plugged into a USB port on the back of a television in an executive conference room and had been concealed in toilet paper,"

      I wonder what the IQ of someone needs to be to think that covering it up with tp makes it less suspicious instead of more. And I also wonder what the hiring process was like to hire someone with that mental frame.

      • MisterMunchkin 44 minutes ago
        Yeah he should have just stuck a post it note with the words “do not remove” and nobody would have noticed
        • natpalmer1776 39 minutes ago
          IT would have noticed next time they had to plug something into the TV. Whether they cared enough to figure out what it was is a different story.
      • msdz 41 minutes ago
        > And I also wonder what the hiring process was like to hire someone with that mental frame.

        Remember, this is only the company responsible for potentially building and aligning AGI. No need to be setting high expectations toward their sandboxing or hiring capabilities.

      • afavour 18 minutes ago
        > And I also wonder what the hiring process was like to hire someone with that mental frame.

        What, we’re supposed to vet everyone we network with at orgies now?

      • AaronAPU 33 minutes ago
        Further evidence the hiring process is orthogonal to competence.
      • fortran77 5 minutes ago
        It it was _used_ toilet paper, nobody would have touched it.
      • cm2187 37 minutes ago
        I also wonder what this guy was paid by those AI labs...
    • IncreasePosts 37 minutes ago
      He should have just left a tape recorder running inside a briefcase that was "forgotten" in the conference room
      • mlmonkey 26 minutes ago
        Did you not read the article? He did that also!
    • ajross 47 minutes ago
      Given that this is being described as an "executive conference room", it's more likely an attempt at insider trading than espionage. Decisions made in those rooms at OpenAI move markets (c.f. DRAM) for sure.
      • TZubiri 42 minutes ago
        OpenAI is both a company that manages a lot of money and a lot of political power, that the target was an "executive conference room" gives no indication as to whether the motives were financial or political.

        What might tilt the bayesian balance in favour of political intent would be the nationality of the individual, state or religious sponsoring become hypotheses.

        • ajross 32 minutes ago
          Honestly I think you can rule out "political" already, no? It's far easier to just bribe politicians for that kind of intelligence. My point was that they weren't stealing models, they wanted decisionmaking intel.
  • mrandish 24 minutes ago
    > "Scott Schelble, special agent in charge of the FBI’s San Francisco field office, said the agency is committed to protecting sensitive research and proprietary technology."

    While the headlines and quotes seem designed to imply sophisticated industrial espionage, potentially by a state-level actor, what's public so far isn't adding up that way.

    1. You're not going to get much actionable research material on proprietary technologies by audio bugging what's said in an executive conference room. That's what you'd do if you were after economic or deal negotiation info.

    2. Hard to imagine a state-level actor buying a ~$15-$35 hobbyist ESP32 board from Seeed Studio (I've ordered a couple from there for home automation myself) and then asking a public chatbot for set up instructions.

    3. They say he was an "engineer" who'd been there ~15 months. If you're an actual engineer at OAI and past the 1 year cliff, you're probably already sitting on RSUs likely to be worth at least $1M after OAI's IPO - and maybe much more. That's a lot of incentive to not get fired and probably makes you pretty hard to recruit as an internal mole for cash.

    • binlog 14 minutes ago
      1. Research is not the only espionage target. High level discussions - future launch decisions, major deals signed with other companies, relationships with governments - are all very valuable.

      2. An operation can be state-sponsored and still amateurish/botched. We have seen plenty of examples of these. Remember a certain bone saw?

      3. The incentive can be a lot more than financial. Plenty of governments are very…persuasive.

      • dmbche 3 minutes ago
        I'm out of the loop, what bone saw are we talking?
    • clueless 20 minutes ago
      > incentive to not get fired / hard to recruit as an internal mole

      but I guess the $1 million was not incentive enough to not commit a dumb insider trading scheme...

  • simonw 46 minutes ago
    This guy previously worked at Meta from 2017 to 2022 on Data Infrastructure projects.

    I expect Meta are running an audit right now to figure out if he was involved in espionage back then as well.

    • talon8635 35 minutes ago
      Or maybe he’s reporting to meta?
      • redanddead 22 minutes ago
        How did they get Wonder up the benchmarks so fast? Llama was a mess
        • loeg 3 minutes ago
          Seems possible there is some chance Alexandr knows what he's doing.
        • wmf 6 minutes ago
          A new team, probably focused on better data.
  • dustfinger 1 minute ago
    I am a bit confused by Figure 3. Do they really have a surveillance camera angled just right to capture a photo of someone between the monitor and the wall that supports it?

    Here is a direct link to Figure 3:

    https://assets.sfstandard.com/image/994911177489/image_bfl33...

  • Topfi 10 minutes ago
    > We used our models to understand the device and where it had come from [...]

    I'll be the first one to admit, that got a hearty laugh out of me. Never miss an opportunity to market your models I guess.

    • jonplackett 7 minutes ago
      It would be funnier in a way if this is true and that all they do there now is ‘ask the model’ about all problems.
      • Topfi 5 minutes ago
        Considering the engineer in question, after a multi-year career at Meta and now OpenAI, needed the model to encrypt an SD card, seems to not be far from the truth...
  • minimaxir 2 hours ago
    > We used our models to understand the device and where it had come from

    Did OpenAI do a marketing bit in the middle of an espionage accusation?

    • mrandish 1 hour ago
      > Did OpenAI do a marketing bit in the middle of an espionage accusation?

      Yes, they did. The people who felt it was totally normal to add that would no doubt be surprised how desperate and cheap it makes them look.

      • brrwind 33 minutes ago
        This is a very weird take to me. They're demonstrating they're able to in-house this cybersecurity investigation, leading to the alleged perpetrator's arrest, and you think that makes them look "desperate and cheap?"
    • seydor 1 hour ago
      "looks like a microphone"

      "almost surely made in china"

    • KazaNLP 1 hour ago
      Funny. I'd bet on whatever model they used over whoever showed up from today's FBI.
    • jacquesm 23 minutes ago
      Of course they did.

      Plumb your video feed of your executive conference room into our DC and we'll tell you if anybody is spying on you.

    • frangonf 29 minutes ago
      Does detective bench cancel out felony bench?
    • binlog 7 minutes ago
      Always be selling
    • m4rtink 1 hour ago
      So it is some HDMI dongle & the model halucinated it into a spying device? ;-)
      • wildzzz 26 minutes ago
        Or it was a voice recorder plugged into a USB port on the back of the TV for power.

        Looking at the photo of the device, it looks like an XIAO ESP32-S3 Sense with the camera removed but the camera board still installed along with its microphone. The wifi/Bluetooth antenna is installed but it also supports microSD cards.

        If I was building this, I'd just set it up so I'd never have to recover it. Have the wifi AP come on for a few minutes at various times during business hours under a MAC and SSID that resembles a smartphone hotspot. Vary the time based on the current day of month week to produce pseudorandomness. Walk by that conference room at some of those times, but not every time, and use a burner to connect and download the latest recordings. Once a recording has been transfered, it's deleted and overwritten to prevent someone from establishing a timeline. If recordings sit for more than a few days, they are wiped. If you can encrypt the SD card, keep the key in RAM so there's nothing useful to recover if someone pulls it out.

        You'd never have to recover the device because all data is transfered covertly. Even if security finds it, they'll likely inadvertently wipe it when it's removed.

    • dfxm12 24 minutes ago
      Yeah, the tweet reads more like an ad then a news report.
    • tamimio 1 hour ago
      They are applying the “turn troubles to opportunities” very well :)
    • xvxvx 2 hours ago
      Yes. Yes they did. Which makes me question the honesty of their announcement.
      • orangecat 2 hours ago
        Yes, the classic marketing ploy of making false reports to the FBI.
        • MisterMunchkin 2 hours ago
          They were literally caught making false reports to a murder investigation
        • SpicyLemonZest 2 hours ago
          It could be that the reports are accurate and the device simply wasn’t as sophisticated as the statement implies. You could if you wanted use an AI model to analyze a USB camera with device name “John_Doe_1”.
  • delichon 2 hours ago

      Abdulrahman Alfozan, 35, a Saudi national, was arrested Friday and charged with using or attempting to use a device to intercept oral communications. 
    
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50078141
  • throwa356262 1 hour ago
    Part of the evidence was his wife's chatgpt logs.

    Remember kids, uncle Sam can see anything you tell your AI and will use that against you.

    • netsharc 48 minutes ago
      A service you delegate your thinking to (Brain-aaS?), which the provider can also instruct to report anything suspicious... What a world we have now.

      I wonder if the BaaS-providers monitor the accounts of decision makers. They could profit if they figure out what e.g. a central banker is going to decide. Or... if they're the ones deciding for him.

      Hah, you can even streamline that by having an AI agent that autonomously makes decisions based on insider info...

    • godwinson__4-8 30 minutes ago
      > Remember kids, uncle Sam can see anything you tell your AI and will use that against you.

      Not just your AI.

      You could have stopped the sentence at "uncle Sam can see anything" and these days it's pretty much true. They will use all of it against you if they can. Unless you truly want to live off the grid, if the state takes a sufficient interest in you, expect everything you do to be seen.

      Uncle Sam tried to get MLK to kill himself by sending him letters alleging knowledge of an affair [1]. Getting some idiot's wife's chatgpt logs represents a fairly routine law enforcement action these days, and as such is really rather unremarkable. The State is always something of a terror. Really under most (if not all) conceptions, it necessarily has to be. The monopoly of force is a comfort until the Leviathan knocks on your door.

      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI-King_letter

      • hosel 22 minutes ago
        Fall in line, be a good little citizen and you have nothing to worry about.
    • binlog 1 hour ago
      Man really switched to his wife’s account and thought no one would be able to track him there. Calling this amateur would be an insult to amateurs.
      • redox99 1 hour ago
        How does someone this dumb get hired at openai?
        • ramraj07 56 minutes ago
          Smart people can do dumb things. Their LinkedIn profile looks typical for an OpenAI engineer.

          We also don’t know if this person did it under duress.

          • robotnikman 47 minutes ago
            >We also don’t know if this person did it under duress.

            He was a Saudi national, so that is a possibility

        • schiffern 45 minutes ago

            >how does someone this dumb get hired
          
          Using AI to pass the interview of course! I wish I was joking...

          It's AI inbreeding all the way down.

        • 10xDev 54 minutes ago
          50% is looking and sounding the part, the other 50% is having a good university on your resume / good networking.
          • sdcfgy 52 minutes ago
            Yeah that. After three bad experiences in a row they are no hire status.

            There’s plenty of better people out there who just aren’t interested in that sort of stuff.

        • robotnikman 49 minutes ago
          Probably went to a prestigious university or had connections.
        • browningstreet 33 minutes ago
          I could def espionage better. Does that qualify me to work at OpenAI?
        • catchnear4321 59 minutes ago
          You might want to have a seat first if you want this explained.
      • nilamo 25 minutes ago
        It's so bad, it seems fake. He gets a little fine or something, along with a large backchannel payment, all to keep attention off of something else...

        But that's crazy talk

    • tcdent 1 hour ago
      > ... a chatbot account associated with Alfozan’s spouse (which shared multiple identifiers and attributes with Alfozan’s own chatbot account) submitted prompts between Sept. 24 and Sept. 30 related to building, customizing, installing, audio recording, testing, obfuscating, and remote accessing a device, including inquiries about “build[ing] a continuous audio recorder,” “customiz[ing] Wi-Fi . . . connectivity,” “improv[ing] audio and live listening,” and “encrypt[ing] the SD card,” among other things. The same chatbot account also submitted prompts specifically related to Recording Device 1, including its custom header and unique MAC address, between Sept. 27 and Sept. 28.

      The justice.gov article doesn't specifically say it was an OpenAI account, but I think, based on the fact that they have logs including MAC address of the device, that we could probably assume that. The alternative is that other chatbot account providers are collaborating.

      Regardless, doing a string search on a MAC address for a device you find inside your property doesn't strike me as an abuse of the data that is also your property.

      • schiffern 57 minutes ago

          >submitted prompts... including its custom header and unique MAC
        
        Sounds more like he put the exact MAC address in a prompt somewhere while setting it up.
      • gip 56 minutes ago
        Not the smartest engineer ever, that use case perfectly align with using a Chinese model! And anyway I have no idea how he was hoping not to be caught in the case the device would be discovered.
      • clear-octopus 59 minutes ago
        [dead]
      • Barrin92 54 minutes ago
        in addition to the whole crime thing, an 'openai engineer', apparently engineering lead according to his linkedin, having to ask chatgpt to tell him how to set up a recorder or how to encrypt a sd card is something. Truly the cream of the engineering crop at those top AI labs
    • Aurornis 59 minutes ago
      True of any cloud service. If you are involved in a criminal investigation, they can get access to your data.

      They can confiscate your computers, too.

      This person, of all people, would know this. He really thought he’d never get caught.

    • ReptileMan 28 minutes ago
      I doubt it. Storage is expensive and costs add up. There are with great certainty many accounts that are marked as non-schmuck and have retain forever policy, but for the schmuck - I think that after year or two your Griffit/Fulgrim slash fiction will go down the drain. I am not sure how many petabytes per minute in logs openai and anthropic generate, but I would guess more than 1.
    • TZubiri 41 minutes ago
      Uncle Sam? It's the same company, the 'spy' asked an OpenAI controlled product how to spy OpenAI, no state espionage or search warrants needed.
      • godwinson__4-8 24 minutes ago
        Federal prosecutors work for OpenAI?

        I actually am curious if they were able to volunteer the information to the government of their own volition, without a government subpoena first. I would think that could violate their own terms if done sloppily. Maybe different if an employee or maybe they had to invite the government to ask for them or something? In any case, the mechanism aside, the state would have asked anyway (say if he used another company's chatbot) so the fact that it's the "same company" is rather irrelevant. The evidence would have ended up in the state's hands one way or the other, and I would think a search warrant in this case would have been rather routine. Search warrants are infamously not a high bar to climb in most jurisdictions, as often the presiding judges tend to default to deferring to the state.

    • IncreasePosts 43 minutes ago
      Presumably they already knew who it was, if they were able to look at his wife's chat logs
    • catchnear4321 1 hour ago
      Uno reverse card - you can send Uncle Sam whatever you care to. No need to specify an address.
      • exe34 34 minutes ago
        I used to joke that the nsa should offer a paid service for no-setup backups. You just tell them what files you've lost, and they can send you a copy for a fee.
        • ReptileMan 27 minutes ago
          Google email search is the service for me. Or search in facebook and instagram chat logs.
  • mbgerring 2 minutes ago
    > We discovered a sophisticated recording device

    did you though

    State intelligence agencie can point a camera at an exterior window and reconstruct dialogue from the vibrations. This was a loose, hand-soldered ESP32. Settle down.

  • BeetleB 56 minutes ago
    Chances are he'll escape back home before the trial:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/saudi-fugitives-accused-o...

  • nl 4 minutes ago
    Can anyone speculate why it was wrapped in a toilet paper roll?

    That seems odd, especially since it would dampen the sound recording

  • Aboutplants 1 hour ago
    He was just gathering training data
    • SoftTalker 57 minutes ago
      I mean really what's the big deal? Gathering information from unsuspecting parties who aren't aware it's happening? He was just doing what his employer does.
  • markus_zhang 7 minutes ago
    Smart guy does stupid things, but why? I mean why did he, as an engineer perhaps earning north to 300k, do such a sloppy job?

    Or maybe OpenAI is hiring the wrong guy? Maybe they should hire me instead?

  • int32_64 2 hours ago
    Between this and the Ledger implants I wonder if AI companies will have a supply chain risk in the future where their models get exfiltrated over 5G.

    Good time to start a company that builds giant Faraday cages over data centers.

    • jacquesm 21 minutes ago
      Meanwhile we all have a supply chain risk because we don't know what's in the models whose agents we are running. Note that if your agent uses OpenAI, Claude or some other inference provider you're one command away from having your data exfiltrated.

      "Oh, let me download file 'companysecrets.pdf' to understand the problem better.

      Of course nobody would ever let an agent loose in their home directory, but still, you have to wonder.

      • 0xCMP 14 minutes ago
        Not only do they give access to their home directory, but they tell it to organize and delete unneeded files without any specifiers. A friend, who is just a power user, had Claude Co-work deleting his downloads to "help make space" and it was deleting important files that there were no other copies of.

        We are going to be dealing with this kind of thing for a very long time at this rate.

    • pjc50 52 minutes ago
      Model "distillation" lets one model be trained on the outputs of another without having to directly steal it. It will be subject to constant arms race.

      The alignment people would like you worry about the model exfiltrating itself, too.

      • IncreasePosts 38 minutes ago
        This technique currently works because the architecture of the model is generally published and well known. But, that isn't necessarily going to be the case in the future. For example, if some new model type which is not a LLM is discovered which gets closer to AGI, just training an LLM on its outputs will not necessarily give you a competitive model
    • pianopatrick 1 hour ago
      Would be better to build the data centers under water than to build giant faraday cages.

      Free cooling, safe from missile attack, and safe from some types of electronic spying.

      • hlieberman 53 minutes ago
        Microsoft (Research) beat you to it: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/natick/

        Still a significantly less dumb idea than space data centers.

      • paimapi 52 minutes ago
        I'm imagining a certified scuba diver rubbing their wetsuitted hands gleefully as they dictated that comment
        • pianopatrick 23 minutes ago
          I imagine that you could design an underwater data center like a submarine. I.e. It could be brought to the surface for maintenance.
    • iAMkenough 1 hour ago
      From the makers of The Iron Dome, now introducing The Copper Dome
    • morkalork 1 hour ago
      I could've sworn I read about Palmer Lucky making comments on hardware coming from China with wiretap implants in the last few days. Funny coincidence eh?
  • vostrocity 1 hour ago
    How did they get that capture of Alfozan looking behind the TV? Does OpenAI install its own surveillance cameras behind TVs to prevent espionage?
    • JumpCrisscross 57 minutes ago
      > How did they get that capture of Alfozan looking behind the TV?

      “OpenAI personnel found the device Sept. 3…On Oct. 5, the complaint says, Alfozan entered the conference room and appeared to look behind the television.”

      The image was captured after the bug was found.

    • Aboutplants 1 hour ago
      I imagine they found the device and then planted a camera to catch whomever came back to get the original device
      • vostrocity 1 hour ago
        Free startup idea: Anti-espionage cameras for corporate offices. Put it behind TVs and plants etc. and it will notify the security team if it detects new objects.
        • jacquesm 19 minutes ago
          Now with extra-wide stereo audio feed, just in case they muble to themselves while doing their thing.
        • paimapi 49 minutes ago
          I'm sure employers will never use in-office surveillance monitoring for anything that resembles algorithmic labor management and exploitation

          Certainly they would be transparent and very ethical with something like that

        • mohamedkoubaa 14 minutes ago
          Won't that startup just be the spy in that situation
    • binlog 1 hour ago
      A camera behind every TV in the office would be something…

      But no the boring answer is that after they found the device they left it in place and planted the camera to see who came looking for it.

      • vostrocity 1 hour ago
        That does make more sense. But if any company were to take surprising security measures, it should be the frontier labs.
    • vatsachak 29 minutes ago
      So it was not AI agents catching the perp it was a camera?
      • orbital-decay 19 minutes ago
        They just asked a chatbot to identify the device and its origins, apparently. His log was used as evidence after the fact as well.
  • risphere 4 minutes ago
    Using your wife's chatbot account and covering a device in toilet paper is not smart when spying a company.
  • rfgplk 3 minutes ago
    > We take protecting our technology, data, and people seriously, and as a matter of national importance.

    What is there to protect? The GPT architecture is publicly known at this point, Anthropic arguably has superior models, there are dozens of other providers who are neck and neck...

  • VBprogrammer 36 minutes ago
    Thank god security at a company which...checks notes...has remote code execution on every developers laptop and access to practically unlimited secrets uploaded by its agents...is top notch.
    • binlog 6 minutes ago
      A company that catches a spy does have better security than one that has not caught any spies.
  • avaer 4 minutes ago
    Speaking of surreptitiously installed bugs, remember to opt out of training in your Codex.
  • seydor 1 hour ago
    > The employee was terminated.

    in this context, they should be more specific about how terminal s/he is

  • jacquesm 25 minutes ago
    Should have used a local model...
  • I_am_tiberius 1 hour ago
    You got me. I ask the obvious question: What's the "sophisticated" device?
    • 0cf8612b2e1e 1 hour ago
      You can buy a voice recorder that will hold weeks of audio for tens of dollars.

      Back of a TV is a decent hiding place. Wonder how they found it -was it actively transmitting?

      • to11mtm 1 hour ago
        Well, The Thing [0] could potentially show up on a probing sweep if you're careful.

        Unless you mean, it happened to be actively transmitting during a(n investigative) sweep.

        Still, raises some fun concepts. The sort of things where in this current level of technology you'd almost need to supercool a room for a sweep, blast various RF/sound/etc and look for anything that even remotely warms up, to detect (1) whether something detected something worth recording for later as well as (2) something that might be on the right wavelength/etc to trigger a send.

        [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)

    • iAMkenough 1 hour ago
      ESP32-S3

      I was making a joke, but it does look like they got their components from Seeed Studio based on photos.

      https://assets.sfstandard.com/image/994911177489/image_k101c...

      https://www.seeedstudio.com/XIAO-ESP32S3-Sense-p-5639.html

      • m4rtink 1 hour ago
        SeedStudio is super nice - a lot of their gear is also popular in the MeshCore community (LoRa radios combined with ESP32 or NRF MCUs).
      • mrandish 46 minutes ago
        [dead]
    • 2OEH8eoCRo0 1 hour ago
      Apple HomeView
  • qkaze15 1 hour ago
    Sounds like fair use to me! Information wants to be free, remember?
  • tamimio 54 minutes ago
    Looking at the device pic in here https://sfstandard.com/2026/10/13/openai-engineer-arrested-a...

    It looks like it’s the (SeeedStudio XIAO ESP32S3 Sense w/ WiFi, BLE, OV2640, Mic) https://ca.robotshop.com/products/seeedstudio-xiao-esp32s3-s...

    Which is just an esp32s3 based device. I assume the word “sophisticated” in openAI report is just copy paste from device description.

  • Imnimo 1 hour ago
    I have seem some articles which reference allegations from court documents / complaint, but I haven't been able to find the primary source. Do we know if that's publicly available yet?
  • catchnear4321 1 hour ago
    seeedstudio getting some impressive pr here for those xiao boards.
  • chews 23 minutes ago
    MBS using that sweet graykey behavior to exfiltrate what they can
  • nfw2 47 minutes ago
    > It was plugged into a USB port on the back of a television in an executive conference room and had been concealed in toilet paper

    ...uh what

  • CamperBob2 35 minutes ago
    >OpenAI said it has no indication that Alfozan improperly accessed or took model weights, source code, or customer data

    Sounds like we know where their priorities lie, anyway.

  • _DeadFred_ 1 hour ago
    In case you need to sweep your area a decent review of anti spy devices by project farm

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1reman2waLs

  • charcircuit 1 hour ago
    Why make this public? Usually companies just silently terminate and pursue employees who do this.
    • simonw 49 minutes ago
      Sounds to me like the feds got involved already, and they're definitely going to want to make a big noise about this as a national security thing:

      > “For us it is a matter of national security,” U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said in a statement. [...]

      > The case is being prosecuted by the National Security, Cyber & Special Prosecutions Section of the U.S. attorney’s office for the Northern District of California.

      (But that was after OpenAI "referred the matter to the FBI")

      There's presumably a strong argument for making this stuff known internally, since you want other employees to a) be on the lookout for it and b) get scared into NOT doing it themselves because someone else got caught.

      If you tell your employees, the outside world is going to hear about it too.

    • gorgoiler 1 hour ago
      A common example is if a journalist gets a tip off and is about to run a story. Being a good old fashioned balanced-reporting type, they call you and ask you for a comment, but rather than giving them your side of story you slam the phone down and blast out a press release before the journalist can even publish.

      (Or maybe you stall them on the phone while scribbling a note to your PA saying “BUG STORY LEAKED TO VALLEYWAG PUT OUT COUNTER PR GET AGEAD OF STORY” hoping to get a tweet out before the ValleyWag gumshoe gets off the phone.)

      (Or maybe you keep a notion.so page pre-filled with all your secrets and each one has a BURN button next to it, ready for you to tap when ValleyWag call up for a comment on their upcoming exposé in re: PR/Disasters/20206090500039.md)

    • binlog 1 hour ago
      Hard to keep a DoJ/FBI investigation under wraps
    • TZubiri 39 minutes ago
      I don't think criminal charges can be private
    • gizmodo59 1 hour ago
      court records? you can't hide them
    • testfrequency 1 hour ago
      I’ve been wondering the same.

      This isn’t uncommon, but it’s rare this info is shared in such detail publicly..possibly to make an example.

  • Razengan 2 hours ago
    An iPhone? A laptop?
  • TacticalCoder 1 hour ago
    > The device was concealed in toilet paper, and its contents were encrypted.

    Concealing a recording device in a conference room in toilet paper is a bit strange. Do executives meet in the toilets to discuss strategic moves?

    • ReptileMan 49 minutes ago
      Well ... a lot of products lately get enshittified.
  • TheArchitectAut 56 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • ChrisArchitect 2 hours ago
    • dang 1 hour ago
      We've merged that thread hither, since current article has more background.
  • rvz 2 hours ago
    So but OpenAI did it to Apple and they were caught, and now OpenAI doesn't like it when it happens to them?

    Either way, there goes the false flag and the reason for companies to stop hiring humans over this espionage.

  • wren6991 1 hour ago
    They're trying to distil OpenAI employees now. Absolutely shameless
    • infamouscow 41 minutes ago
      Distilled... into soylent?
      • jacquesm 18 minutes ago
        It's a joke riffing off the Anthropic letter that was posted yesterday.
  • clustrfunk 1 hour ago
    There’s absolutely no way Abdulrahman did this. This was a setup.