6 comments

  • doughnutstracks 1 hour ago
    Lots of shady missile deals went down in West Asia/North Africa in the 60/70s. Somewhat related: Israel was collaborating with Iran on missile projects but allegedly planned to deceive them by providing outdated missiles while using Iranian funds to develop superior versions for themselves [0].

    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_Flower

    • breppp 57 minutes ago
      Where's the part about deceiving in the link? Aren't you conflating Iran-Contra that happened after the revolution?
      • doughnutstracks 52 minutes ago
        It's in the last paragraph.

        >While Pahlavi's authorities were happy with this project and its advancement away from the eyes of the US in their view, Israel had carefully duped Pahlavi to secure its interests. According to Israel's plan, during this project, contrary to what Iran's top officials think, Iran would only achieve obsolete technology.

        and in the original source [0]:

        >A very senior source in the Israeli Ministry of Defense reveals that the weapons deal with Iran was fraudulent. With each of the six joint proj-ects, the Israelis planned to deceive the Iranians by providing them only an outdated version of the weapon in question, while using Iranian money to build a new generation for Israel's exclusive use.

        [0] https://books.google.com/books?id=NkxZcHL1xdYC&pg=PA6&redir_...

        • goodluckchuck 11 minutes ago
          When I buy a laptop from Apple, they used my money to build the next generation of laptops… which inevitably come out within a year. I wouldn’t necessarily believe Iran was deceived without more.
  • Lucasoato 2 hours ago
    This is something that’s actively happening nowadays as well. One way to slow down a country development is hunting its top scientists that are working in military tech.

    In recent years US has been hit so hard, probably it will have even worse side effects since this discourages other scientists from following that career path as well.

    • buran77 1 hour ago
      > hunting its top scientists [...] this discourages other scientists from following that career path

      I take it you mean this literally (assassinations) rather than figuratively (getting hired by the competition).

      > In recent years US has been hit so hard

      Any evidence of this? Other than the storm in a cup that was the recent news of "dead scientists" that turned out to be a nothingburger.

      The idea sounds very plausible and it happens again and again elsewhere (e.g. Israel keeps taking out Iranian scientists). But I haven't heard anything major from the US, and I doubt the US would take it lightly and keep everything quiet, especially with the current admin who would kill for more media distractions for the people.

  • bookofjoe 2 days ago
  • pseudohadamard 1 day ago
    If you want an interesting related story that's so incredible people wouldn't believe if it was a film plot, look up Otrag. Not the Wikipedia page, that only tells a fraction of the full story. There's a documentary floating around somewhere about their work in Zaire under Mobutu before they started building ballistic missiles for Gaddafi.
    • flohofwoe 2 hours ago
      Both cases remind me of Project Harp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP). After the project was shut down by the US and Canada, the engineer behind it (Gerald Bull) decided to work for Saddam Hussein to build a "Babylon Cannon" which then caused Mossad to 'intervene' in 1990:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull

      I wonder how many similar but unknown cases there are involving former Soviet scientists and engineers trying their luck with 3rd world despots after the Soviet Union collapsed.

      PS: just remembered that Willy Messerschmitt also ended up building a jet fighter for Egypt after the project was abandondend by Spain. Egypt then also eventually cancelled the project in 1969 though and instead decided to become close buddies with the Soviet Union - I wonder if that decision saved Messerschmitt from the same fate as Krug and Bull:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helwan_HA-300

      • Lumich 13 minutes ago
        « 3rd world despots »

        Fortunately, there is no need for despots in our superior first world, where all peoples are steered in eunuch-like consumerist subservience to the interests and designs of the City on the Hill, of an oligarchy with global pretense (which obviously includes the riches of the third world). The need for despotic punishment of insubordinate vassals does arise occasionally, but the lesson is quickly learnt and its repetition feared, so any rebellion against freedom and democracy is quickly stifled.

        • flohofwoe 9 minutes ago
          My choice of words doesn't imply that only the 3rd world had despots, that's just what you want to read into it.

          Back in the Cold War the 'division' of the world into power blocs was quite simple:

          - 1st world: countries aligned with the US

          - 2nd world: countries aligned with the USSR

          - 3rd world: independent countries that were neither aligned with the US nor USSR

          E.g. in its actual meaning, 3rd world doesn't say anything about how rich or poor a country is, or about its form of government.

      • megous 54 minutes ago
        "caused"

        it's all human decisions. especially at institutional level, there's no causing others to act

        • flohofwoe 15 minutes ago
          Yes of course. Bull decided to work for the 'bad guys', and some people at Mossad decided that they didn't like that decision (assuming it was Mossad, but that's pretty much certain). It's still an "action that 'caused' a reaction".
    • vrganj 1 hour ago
  • fryanyway_swe 1 hour ago
    Good, it furthers western interests.

    Me, living in EU, have seen the evils of MENA.

  • metalman 1 hour ago
    China built secret research citys that were essential hermeticly sealed, down to growing there own food, and these days have built such a secureity focused comunication system that any attempts to recruit asassins is going to require money and infuence that doesn't exist, as internaly all of those functions are arms of the state. Over and over China demonstrates it's dedication to there only rule: dont mess with the brand. During the first round of the Hormuz crisis, China parked two ships right in the middle of the action, one which is the worlds largest and most powerfull signals intelligence data processing ships, and the other a very large brand new missle cruiser, and then three weeks ago China delivered to Iran a pre agreed upon shipment of brand new MANPADS. It gets worse as Russia and Iran have demonstrated high acuracy manouverable hypersonic missles, and that there a drones everywhere. The drones are worse in that they are unatributable, perfect false/no flag weapons of terror, murder and mayhem. So, you know, here we go, into what I call "whatever this is", where our technologys are rapidly approaching the limits imposed by universal laws, but we are still the same bunch of cheating ,lying, scheeming, steeling, murdering, monkeys.