Cows Can Use Sophisticated Tools

(nautil.us)

66 points | by Tomte 3 hours ago

14 comments

  • buildsjets 2 hours ago
    Wikipedia has illustrations of the tools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_tools
  • water-data-dude 8 minutes ago
    I never interpreted the Cow Tools strip as saying "cows are too dumb to use tools", but more along the lines of "if cows could create tools could we even fathom their use?" - kinda like the Borges story, Celestial Emporium of Benevolent Knowledge[0]. On the other hand, I read The Far Side when I was small and didn't really have the scientific chops to get a lot of the humor, so maybe I cemented an incorrect interpretation.

    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_Emporium_of_Benevole...

  • ksymph 48 minutes ago
    It seems like the lesson we keep learning, no matter the proxy we use for intelligence, is that there is nothing that fundamentally sets humans apart from other animals (or even, in some ways, AI) other than the degree and scope of our intelligence.

    While I'll never begrudge science that points out the obvious -- that's often where the most value comes from -- this particular avenue is always a little funny to me, as it often belies an expectation that other animals are unable to do these things by default.

    • lo_zamoyski 9 minutes ago
      > It seems like the lesson we keep learning, no matter the proxy we use for intelligence, is that there is nothing that fundamentally sets humans apart from other animals

      Except it doesn't show that.

      The reason people make this judgement is because they don't have a coherent or clear definition of "intelligence". Nothing has been undermined, except in those who took the view that animals are dumb automatons. That's more of a legacy of modernism and the desire to gain "mastery over nature" more than anything else.

      The essential feature of human beings - from which the rest of human nature and its consequences follow, including our social nature - is rationality. This entails an intellect, which is the abstracting faculty. It is the intellect that makes language possible, because without the capacity to abstract from particulars, we could not have universal concepts and thus no predicates. Language would be reduced to the kind we see in other animals.

      For clarity, the functions of language are:

      1. expressive: expressing an internal state or emotion (e.g., a cry of pain)

      2. signaling: use of expressive to cause a reaction in others (e.g., danger signals)

      3. descriptive: beyond immediate sensation; describes states of affairs, allowing for true or false statements

      4. argumentative: allows critical analysis, inference, and rational justification

      Without abstraction, (3) and (4) are impossible. But all animal activity we have observed requires no appeal to (3) and (4). Non-human animals perceive objects and can manipulate them, even in very clever ways, but they do not have concepts (which are expressed as general names).

      Could there be other rational animals in the universe? Sure. But we haven't met any. And from an ontological POV (as opposed to a phylogenetic taxonomic classification), they would be human, as the ontological definition of "human being" - "rational animal" - would apply them.

    • IAmBroom 18 minutes ago
      The primal separation of man and animals has not changed since the invention of the device...

      Animals fear motorized vacuum cleaners.

      • hugeBirb 7 minutes ago
        I fear a motorcycle blasting down my street at 10pm. What's the difference. Once my cats realized the robo vac won't hurt them they don't even move for it anymore... Seems intelligent to initially be terrified of something and update your perception of it.
  • Sharlin 2 hours ago
    • erickhill 42 minutes ago
      OK I think all pasture raised cows should be given nice little wooden brooms going forward.
  • worik 1 minute ago
    Watch out. It has been predicted... https://youtu.be/FQMbXvn2RNI?si=-Y6mo-3mWbpbZtVc
  • tangledknots 1 hour ago
    It's noteworthy to me that every scientific discovery is that non-human animals are "more clever than we thought" - and never ever the other way around.
    • lo_zamoyski 7 minutes ago
      It would be uninteresting. Think of almost any headline where some species is described as "dumber than previously thought". Not especially interesting.
    • functionmouse 45 minutes ago
      I've seen a couple "Koalas are even dumber than we thought" articles

      Poor lads really are exceptionally dumb

    • fellowniusmonk 44 minutes ago
      Koalas are the one that springs to mind. I believe the test result was "does not recognize their only food source (eucalyptus leaves) when served plated."
  • harimau777 58 minutes ago
    Cows watch sunsets man!
    • shawn_w 32 minutes ago
      Cows have best friends.
    • goopypoop 43 minutes ago
      cows also seem to enjoy music
  • elcapitan 51 minutes ago
    Cow General Intelligence (CGI) when?
  • goopypoop 51 minutes ago
    does Cordyceps use tools?
    • IAmBroom 25 minutes ago
      Fungi.

      AFAIK, fungi have never used mechanical tools.

      They can solve complex algos using parallel processing, but no tools. Unless you consider zombie ants to be a tool...

  • cocacolacowboy 2 hours ago
    [dead]
  • fuddle 1 hour ago
    Privacy Badger blocked 75 trackers on their site :O
  • didntknowyou 2 hours ago
    the researcher documented a cow using a stick to scratch itself. no doubt they're intelligent animals but describing them as using 'sophisticated tools' is a bit of a stretch.

    this behaviour is quite common in cattle and other animals, often seen rubbing or using sticks to scratch spots. sometimes it is dangerous as they find fences with nail poking out and cut themselves when rubbing to to calm an itch.

    • hugeBirb 2 hours ago
      "This behavior is quite common..." is very misleading. This specific behavior is not common. Scratching an itch does not equal using a tool to scratch an itch. Every animal I've seen in nature knows how to use external static objects to help them scratch somewhere they can't reach. Dogs cats, bears, pigs, cows... etc. I think my cats are very intelligent, I've seen them use the bristle brush attachment we have on the wall to scratch themselves. If I ever watched one of them pick up a fork with their mouth and orient it in a way to scratch their back I would absolutely lose my mind. These are not the same behaviors.
      • garciasn 1 hour ago
        If your cats picked up a fork, it would be to eat you after they killed you in your sleep; but, I could see how that could be considered “scratching an itch.”
        • hugeBirb 1 hour ago
          Maybe that's why they try to sleep directly on my neck every night. Always plotting something
          • garciasn 1 hour ago
            They’re not kneading you; they’re tenderizing the meat.
      • ysavir 1 hour ago
        I've seen my cats pull on a cord in order to reel in the toy at the end. I don't find that to be all too different from the cow orienting a scratcher. Should I?
        • hugeBirb 1 hour ago
          Idk I guess that's really up for you to decide. My opinion is that behavior seems very uhhh instinctual? Like if they were eating something that was running away from them I'm sure they would employ a similar tactic/behavior. Thing far away from me I need it closer. The logical steps to use a tool that would have 0 instinctual context seems leaps and bounds more "complex". I'm no animal/evolutionary scientist, just my opinion. It very well could be!
    • bigstrat2003 1 hour ago
      > no doubt they're intelligent animals

      Having spent my childhood around cows, I can say there's a great deal of doubt in my mind on that point. I know from extensive first-hand experience that cows are quite stupid.

      • mitchell_h 51 minutes ago
        I have Cows and Pigs, raised for show and meat. I would not call either animal "intelligent". I would call them stupid determined. They have all the time in the world to push, pull, grab and generally implement mayhem.
      • hugeBirb 1 hour ago
        Having spent my entire life around cows I can say there's a great deal of evidence that cows are quite intelligent. Most of the time when people say they're dumb it's because they're hindering a human from forcing them to do something. Why should a cow "know" to go one way or the other or to not stop in a chute, or to not back up...these are just human constraints. We know what we WANT the cow to do and if they don't do that they're dumb. Sure I've seen cows do dumb things. If I was an outside observer looking at the severity and frequency that humans do dumb things I would come to the same conclusion, they're dumb.
        • Loughla 1 hour ago
          I'm with both of you. Growing up on a beef farm taught me that cows can be very dumb (no, you can't walk through the barbed wire, and no, you can't get to the water in the cistern without falling in and drowning) but also do show intelligence in some ways (the personal vendetta against the veterinarian's truck, or seeing their best friend in spring pastures and absolutely going apeshit).

          Like most things. . . It's shades of grey.

    • dboreham 2 hours ago
      This cow picked up the stick (broom) and wielded it clenched within her teeth. Quite different than rubbing against a static object.
    • card_zero 2 hours ago
      I like to claim that dinosaurs used tools, because some of them swallowed gastroliths. No reason a tool can't be internal.

      Oh wait, the article says external is in the "scientific definition". Fine.

      • b00ty4breakfast 1 hour ago
        I swallowed a rock when I was a kid (ok, maybe calling it a "rock" is being a bit dramatic, more like a pebble), does that make me a tool?

        ....wait, no